News - A webzine covering today's independent cinema scene and a whole lot more!

Posted by Duane on Monday, March 01, 2010 @ 23:53:04 Mountain Standard Time

Jason Schaver and Ken Gayton made (and starred in) a film that I reviewed back in February of 2009 I believe it was, called The Truth about Average Guys. It's one of those films that's so non-politically correct and has such a phenomenal chemistry between the cast members, that you can't help but love it. Now, with the DVD release imminent, it seemed like a great time to get the word out all over again about this seriously awesome film.

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DLM - Let's start off, as I usually do, by having you guys introduce yourselves and telling us a little bit about your backgrounds.

Jason - My name is Jason Schaver. I played "Troy" in the film, as well as co-writer/co-director/co-producer of the film.   I've had no training what so ever in the film industry. I read like 10 pages of a book on story structure and a book on formatting and that's it.    I didn't even get interested in writing/acting until I was in my mid to late 20's.    Ken is the brains of this outfit.

Ken - If that's true then we are screwed. I didn't go to film school either. I took some improv classes around Chicago at Second City, IO, and Comedy Sportz. Started writing my own sketches/scripts and shot them under my production companies banner, Adjusted Gratuity. They were received well and several of them were on the front page of myspace. Before everyone jumped on Facebook.

DLM - Tell us how The Truth About Average Guys came about. Where did the idea come from and how did it develop into a full fledged project.

Jason - I came up with the original idea for "TTAAG" back in 2001. A co-worker of mine (named Troy) could do a spot on mentally challenged character and I thought of the idea of having a guy have his best friend play a mentally challenged character to win over a girl with mentally challenged sister.   Originally I was to play "Jason" and my friend was to play "Troy", but he ended up not wanting to do it.     From 2001-2005 I tried to get a few local indie filmmakers to make this film.   Several of them were interested but they didn't want me to be part of it.   Some of them even suggest I audition for my own movie.   They just wanted me to hand over the script and disappear. Some of them wanted me to change it so the leads were in their 40's.   Some of them wanted me to change it so the leads were in their teens.    Honestly, this film just does not work if they are in their 40's or their teens.   Twentysomethings work perfectly because at that age they are smart enough to pull it off, but still dumb enough to try it.     In April of 2006 I decided to put together my own team together and film this myself.     At the last second I decided I didn't have the acting chops to play "Jason" so I opted for the role of "Troy". The first attempt got about halfway through when I decided that I could no longer work with the lead actor.   It just wasn't fun anymore.   So in August of 2006 we held auditions for the 2nd attempt which is where I met Ken Gayton.   I immediately cast him in the role of "Jason" and we shot the 2nd attempt in the fall of 2006. I was better than the first attempt, but still not very good.   So Ken and I rewrote the script in 2007 and decided to make it ourselves in 2008.

Ken - What he said. Actually when I first read the logline for this script I thought it was going to be the biggest pile of crap. After reading it, and laughing my ass off, I never wanted a role so badly. After shooting the whole film with Jason we became good friends and I thought the script had too much potential to waste on that version. So we rewrote it adding some male friends, developing the romantic aspect of the film, and also putting Troy in more fish out of water type of situations like the Poker Scene.

DLM - When it came down to actually making the film, how did you finance it, and what kind of a budget did you have to work with? Also, what kinds of things were you able to pull off and what did you have to scale back on because of your budget?

Jason - we financed it ourselves.   Ken put in $2500 and I put in $2500.     In terms of what we could pull off and what we couldn't, we pretty much could do what we wanted (for the most part).     The script didn't have a lot of locations or a lot of characters, no big explosions, no special affects, just a good character driven comedy.     We did have a problem with extras though.   A lot of people would say they were going to show up, but maybe 10% of them actually did.   So that really put a damper on the softball scene.

Ken -Luckily our crew had their own equipment so all we had to pay for was a small base pay for the three crew members. Food. Some locations like the bowling alley, Molly's Cupcakes, and a deli for an ending we never used. Also paid for the lead actress to come in from Canada. Though she did pay for a lot of the expenses out of her own pocket as she had to stay here for two months.

DLM - What were some of the more memorable moments for you guys from during the production phase of the film. Any funny stories or rememberances you'd like to share with us?

Jason - Honestly, the days I enjoyed most were the ones with "the friends".   We had each other in stitches.   There was so much improv with those guys.   It was a lot of fun. It didn't even feel like we were acting.   We were just guys having fun being stupid.      I also remember how long it took to clean up the champagne from the scene where we poured it all over Ken.   Took one minute to film that scene, and an hour to clean it up.

Ken - haha, yeah and the floor was still sticky after that. My friends weren't very happy with me. Unfortunately the memorable moments were the hardest, not the most fun. On our second day our gaffer didn't show up. No call. Nothing. We thought he bailed. but he actually had food poisoning. However that day was very tough to get through and we got about half the shots we needed to get. This was not an easy location either as it was about 2 hours away. I love being on set, but when you are the lead actor/co-directing/producing/script supervising, etc. It's kind of tough to just enjoy the moment. The most fun I had was probably driving to and from set. Or during the meals. Because I didn't have as much to worry about.

DLM - What about nightmare days. Ever have any of those days during filming where aboslutely nothing went right? If so, how'd you deal with it...

Jason - the only nightmare day I remember is filming until 3am one night and having to drive back to Rockford while the sun was coming up.   I have no idea how I made it home.

Ken- I kind of already answered this, but I got more. The main thing when shooting a film with no budget is that nobody can be above anything. Nobody has one set job. Actors are holding bounce boards. Sound Guys are being extras. Extras are behind the camera, well maybe not that far. But you have to expect that things will go wrong and just go with the flow. Like the day I actually forgot to bring the concert tickets as props. We just improvised that scene and it turned out really well. I never really had any extreme days on set where everything went wrong or everything went right.

DLM - Hindsight is often one of the most annoying things in life, because invariably we find ourselves wishing we had know then what we know now. If you could go back and change anything about the way the film was produced or anything in the content of it, what would it be?

Jason - the only thing I would change is we kind of rushed things towards the end.   Between having day jobs and filming EVERY weekend it was really tough towards the end to remained focused and not just phone it in.    We were were exhausted physically and mentally.   Since this was our first feature I think we may have underestimated just how grueling of a process it can be.

Ken - I think even if we had every possible resource at our fingertip I would still cringe at certain points in the film. I'm never truly satisfied, but you can't constantly second guess either. It will get you nowhere. This film would still be in production if we could change anything. But to actually answer your question I'd say that the intro to the film is the thing I would most like to change. We hadn't decided on a title yet and shot a neutral opening that really has nothing to do with the movie. It's nice to showcase Chicago and beautiful Lake Shore Drive, but I would've like to have shot a montage of average guys doing ridiculous things to hide their insecurities in order to impress women. Like driving expensive cars they can't afford. Sucking in their gut. Wearing Toupees.

DLM - The film had a really great cast. How difficult was it find just the right people, how long was the process, and how did you go about it?

Jason - Ken had a lot of talented actor pals from his Adjusted Gratuity sketch group.   We also had auditions in Chicago.   We had about 100 people audition, would have had more if the weather would have been a bit better (this was December 2007).    We flew in the lead actress from Canada because she was head and shoulders above the rest of the auditioners.

Ken - We put audition notices on Actors Access and Craigs List. Though you get more professional people from actors access. We had two days of callbacks. For me getting good actors was extremely important. I knew we didn't have the equipment to make this movie look or sound as good as hollywood movies or even bigger independent movies. But the average fan doesn't pay attention to well lit scenes or cool shot compositions. They pay attention to the story and the people in charge of telling it. Not to say that the technical aspect isn't important, I just knew that we weren't going to be able to wow people with it. So I'm always happy when the acting gets complimented in the film, and not just mine.

DLM - The film itself is very politically incorrect in many ways, which is why it's so funny, especially to those of us who hate political correctness, and yet you managed to be politically incorrect in a really funny way without going overboard to the point where it becomes mean spirited. What sort of comments have you received about the way you dealt with the mentally handicapped in this film. Has it been well received? Have you had any negative reactions to it? What are your attitudes toward political correctness in general?

Jason - typically people will hear the logline and cringe a bit, but after seeing the film they realize it's not about making fun of the mentally challenged, it's about an insecure guy doing what ever it takes to get his dream girl to notice him.    One thing I like about our film is we don't do "politically incorrect" just for the sake of being "edgy".   A lot of polically incorrect films do that.    Our film needs these moments because they are very much a part of the story.   In fact, without the, the story would be worse. My attitude towards political correctness is it's a huge waste of time.   We spend far too much time trying not to step on people's toes and it doesn't really accomplish anything, except make us a bunch of whiners.   Instead of complaining b/c someone used the R word, go out and donate blood or adopt a child or do something productive.    Getting rid of a word you don't like might make you feel better, but in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't do sh*t. :)

Ken - Surprisingly not one person has said they were offended by it after watching the movie. Even people with mentally challenged siblings or relatives. People that work with the Special Olympics. And this has played in rooms filled with strangers, not just friends and family. I think the mentally challenged aspect puts us at a disadvantage because people might skip it because of that or go in with such low expectations ready to rip the movie to shreds. A lot of discussion has gone on about the word retarded and how it shouldn't be used ever. This is ridiculous. We use the word retarded as slang in reference towards someone that has mental retardation which, like it or not, is the Clinical definition according to the psychological bible the DSM IV. People need to stop focusing on the word and think about how it is being used. Because you can change it to Intellectual Disability, but people will just latch on to that new definition. Before mental retardation it was categorized into three levels called idiot, imbecile, and moron. Any of those sound familiar as common insults? We don't use the word maliciously. We don't make fun of people with mental retardation, we make fun of the guy pretending to be retarded. People campaigning for those with special needs should take back the word retarded like Gays took back queer. Or how about the controversy over how gay was being used and how it shouldn't be used in a negative manner. "That's so Gay." Instead of banning the word they educated people on not using it in a pejorative way. Trying to rid the world of the word retarded is saying that there is something wrong with mentally retarded people or "intellectually disabled" people.   Instead of trying to hide our differences and force everyone to be viewed the same way, we should celebrate our individuality. That's my biggest problem with being PC. People do it because it makes them feel like a better person, like recycling.   Hope I didn't get too preachy or boring. Fart stick on a broom pole. That should get this interview back on track.

DLM - Tell us about your experiences with submitting your film to the 2009 Trail Dance Film Festival. You had a pretty nice surprise from there didn't you? What other festivals have you submitted the film to and what has the general response been?

Jason - Trail Dance really spoiled us.   It was the first festival we submitted to.   The first one we got into. We were just happy to get into a festival and we end up winning "Best Comedy", "Best Actress", and "Best of Festival".    It could not have gone any better.   The people were great.   The town of Duncan, OK really comes out and supports this festival.    After our screening we were treated like rockstars.   Everyone wanted autographs and pictures taken with us.   It was just incredible.     We hope to be back in 2011 if all goes well.

Ken - Trail Dance had this cool countdown on their website to the acceptance day. I remember getting the call from Jason that we had got in and I was completely overwhelmed. You never know if anybody is going to like your film, and the fact that it got into a festival helped validate all the time spent on getting to that point. Counting from the first time I read the original script all the way through post production.   It also helped lessen the blow of getting rejected from Sundance and Slamdance right after that. Then once we got back from Trail Dance I got a call from East Lansing film festival that they had accepted us. I was on such a high. Then we got rejected by about 10 festivals in a row. But that blow was lessened by winning Best Feature at East Lansing. Basically what I am saying is that it is a series of highs and lows. But I'm also going to add that we won an award at our first festival and our last festival, Best Feature Comedy at Illinois International Film Festival. Nice little way to bookend the experience.

DLM - The DVD release has been a long time in coming, and it has some nice special features. Tell us about the DVD itself, and also when people can go out to buy themselves a copy, which I highly recommend to everyone because it's an awesome film!

Jason - The film is available on Walmart, Best Buy, Blockbuster.com, and Netflix.   It will also be carried in these stores as well, but since all of these stores are run locally/regionally they won't be in every Walmart, Best Buy, or Blockbuster, but they will be in some of them.   Once the demand for the film increases the amount of stores carrying the DVD will also increase.

Ken - You can preorder it now or put it in your queue. The film hits stores March 9th, but like Jason said, not all stores. If there is more of a demand then more stores will carry it. Some nice features on the DVD are commentary track by Jason and myself. A detailed history of the making of the movie, as well as outtakes. Which are always my favorite part of a DVD.

DLM - What can we expect to see from you guys in the future? Do you have anything new in the works for us, or at least in the planning stages?

Jason - Ken and I co-wrote another script called "S.O.L." which is about a down on his luck comedian who inadverantly becomes part of a robbery in which a high profile television actress is taken hostage.   We're meeting with investors right now and hope to start filming in June in the Chicago area.

Ken - I actually have a lot of completed scripts I hope to shop. Some written with Jason. Some by myself. Getting an agent would be awesome. But I just hope to continue making movies and working with Jason. We work really well together. But I'd also like to branch out into other genres. Comedy is great and both our forte. But I kind of want to do every kind of genre movie there is. Technology has made it easier for independent filmmakers to succeed. If we are able to produce good scripts I don't see why we can't be in the business for a long time. Even if Hollywood never gives us a chance.

DLM - Is there anything else you'd like to mention before we wrap this up?

Jason - buy our film. It's funny. And go to imdb and look us up, rate the film if you've seen it.

Ken - If you're reading this film then you are a fan of independent cinema. We have no "Name Actors". No money. A truly independent film, but made for the purpose of entertaining the masses. Word of mouth is the best marketing tool we have.

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Web Links:
http://www.adjustedgratuity.com

Posted by Duane on Monday, March 01, 2010 @ 23:29:42 Mountain Standard Time

I first became acquainted with filmmaking duo Philip and Lucy Magcalas, co-founders of Milk and Cookie Productions in Boston, Massachusetts, last month when I reviewed their short drama, Skin and Bone. In only their second feature, these filmmakers chose to make a poignant and deeply meaningful film about the medical profession and the connections between medical professionals, patients, and the family members of those patients. Produced over the course of a year for nearly nothing, these filmmakers have made a fantastic, highly polished film that should be seen by anyone who has ever had to deal with tough health choices in a medical facility.

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CC: I’ve heard of actors becoming directors, producers becoming directors, even screenwriters and effects people becoming directors, but I’m fascinated by the fact that you came from the medical field to make movies. Could both of you please give us some information about your backgrounds? How did you come to make films?

PM: We actually met way back in high school, doing theatre and choir, and that was sort of where I started off, creatively. I was always interested in writing, but getting a degree in engineering sort of took the front seat for the time being. Moving into Boston after college, I joined a sketch comedy troupe in the evenings while I worked at the hospital during the day. We had weekly shows with musicians and other comedy troupes, and it was the first time since early in college that I really got plunged back into the creative world. Here were all these people making things from their ideas, so I figured I might as well give it a go, myself. So, I wrote our first script, for “The Quarter-Life Crisis,” and asked Lucy if I could get us a camera and a mic to make it. She read the script, made me make a few changes, took the role of the producer, and I taught myself as we went along; and we kind of just went from there!

LM: I originally hail from Los Angeles, and moved to sunny Las Vegas during high school with my mother. My mother is a writer who has worked as a novelist, travel writer, and screen writer. Because of this, I grew up with a love of filmmaking, and the creative process, but knew I wanted to pursue a career in science where I felt I could succeed based on how hard I worked, rather than in Hollywood where many other factors come into play. Phil and I met during my junior year of high school doing choir and theater in Las Vegas, and ended up staying together despite going to different colleges. I went to college at Boston University for my undergraduate degree in Neuroscience and Neuropsychology. I always kept one foot in the art world though, doing plays and singing throughout undergrad. After college, Philip moved to Boston to start working at the Cardiac Cath lab at Mass General, while I pursued my Master’s Degree in public health. The fall after we were married in 2005 I left to go study in the Philippines and Philip stayed in Boston and joined an improv comedy troupe "Bragging to Children" (BTC). When I returned he was creatively inspired by the great group of people he was working with, and wanted to try to branch out into the medium of film. I told him we could buy a camera and equipment if he gave me a script and a plan, and that's where it all started. He gave me the script for "The Quarter-Life Crisis" about a week later, and I loved it. So, in 2006 we started our company Milk and Cookie Productions and set out to make a short film. Since then we have been working with many of the same creatively inspiring people from BTC on both "Skin and Bone" as well as our web TV Show "The Presidentials."

CC: The film was made with no official budget, with cast and crew performing and working for free, and I’m assuming with no location fees or equipment rental fees. How were you able to pull all of that together?

PM: Well, we had our equipment already, which we bought on as tight of a budget as possible, so that was already set. The nice thing about the Boston area is that people are just incredibly nice and supportive for the most part. Of course, it’s not without problems at times. The restaurant scene was written as a diner, so the first place we tried to film, the restaurant scene was an actual diner car and they gave us some trouble the day we were to film, so we had to cancel the shoot with the actors there and everything. Carberry’s in Cambridge was the original place I had in mind when I wrote the scene, and they ended up being so accommodating and just couldn’t have been nicer. Brent, who runs the place, actually even gave the cast and crew some baked goods at the end of the day. It’s the nice thing about filming in a place like Boston – there are a lot of supportive people out there. All the rest was a combination of luck, guerrilla filmmaking, and just improv out of necessity (for instance, we shot a lot of inserts and procedure scene close ups in our apartment).

LM: One word: Boston! Boston is an amazing place to be an independent filmmaker. There are many people who live double lives - scientists by day - talented musicians, actors, and artists by night. It is also a place where people are still really excited about filmmaking, and the locations we filmed at went out of their way to help us at no cost. The actors are people we know, many of whom are normally comedians, but we also had an open casting call and each person in the production auditioned for the roles they received. We made a lot of our equipment for both films and thanks to thinking outside of the box (groins made out of clay) we have been able to represent Philip's vision pretty faithfully for the projects that we have done.

CC: You filmed across an entire year. What kinds of challenges did you have with a production that started and stopped so much?

PM: I think the biggest thing was the fact that we had a cast of roughly 30. Obviously, if people are earning money on set, you can make a schedule and they can follow it. But when you are having people contribute their time and talent for food, copy, and the possibility that the film might see the light of day, you kind of have to work around what people can do. Everyone had day jobs, us included, and the film takes place during the day, so that was a challenge, as it’s difficult to get that many people to be free at once. It’s a great credit to the actors that almost everyone had to film something without the other actor there. So, that and restrictions on the number of people we could have on set at any given time made our scheduling complicated, but productive when we were there.

LM: Dear Lord. Honestly, the biggest issue was the size of the cast! Thanks to the magic of editing though, we were able to have some scenes where not everyone is actually in the same room at the same time. That said, the biggest time constraint was getting actors to set since we only pay in food and good company currently. We were also in the process of applying to medical school, going on a round-the-world trip, and then starting medical school at the same time as making this film!

CC: Lucy, you are listed as producer, but I also saw your name in several other credits. As producer of a no-budget film, were you prepared to wear many different hats? What job or jobs were your favorites?

LM: As producer of a no-budget film, I did wear many hats, and due to "The Quarter-Life Crisis" I was prepared for the onslaught of activities that would come my way. I feel like my producer hat in this instance was focused on securing locations to film, helping Philip get the cast and crew where they needed to be on time, and making sure everything was done in a timely manner. That said, when you make a film like this you end up playing every role possible from cook to makeup artist, and although it is exhausting, it is also exhilarating in a way. My favorite jobs included effects for the groins, and supervising of editing. The groins I made out of clay with liquid latex and makeup on top because the ones we were trying to make of gelatin would not set the night before our shoot. That is one of the things I love about both film and medicine. You have to think creatively sometimes to find solutions to problems, and you cannot give up. I also love to watch the editing process and see the film come together. That kind of inside knowledge always makes me happy when I see the film and it looks realistic.

CC: Philip, I’m interested in how you came up with the story line. Aside from the obvious connection you have with heart catheterization labs, the story of a cranky cardiac doctor who abuses his staff only to end up realizing how much he needs them has a wonderful irony to it.

PM: I think this film definitely came from the experiences I had working, combined with a series of “what if” scenarios. I don’t think there’s much of anything in this film that either did not or could not have come from reality. I just felt that there was so much dramatically interesting in what really happens to normal people, every day. When you are in a hospital as a patient, all focus should rightly be on you – so I was trying to widen that lens to touch on the people behind the curtain – medical staff and the family members, who all have to try to find a way to put things aside and focus on the person whose illness brought them there. It’s difficult and the dynamics are definitely worth exploring.

CC: Philip, you also play a significant role in the film as an actor. Was the acting role by choice or necessity? What challenges did you face in both acting and directing in the same film?

PM: This was definitely a situation of necessity. I was hoping to take a back seat on the acting on this one, so I could focus on developing a proper visual style and getting things to look right in the limited time we had on set. Unfortunately, we had a few curveballs with the casting and even lost a great cast member to conflicting schedules after we had started filming with him. We had a huge cast scramble, a few people ended up switching roles around, and I kind of ended up where I was because it was time to move on with the production. I’ll be honest - I like to be the one behind the camera and I had to take more time in getting shots set up and agreed upon. Not really ideal, and it slowed things down, but it did help me learn a little more about communicating my ideas. I’d say my big huge regret with this situation was that it gave me even less time to properly direct the actors, but luckily our actors are top notch, so there wasn’t a lot I had to ask from them other than what they inherently do anyhow.

CC: Talk a little about the soundtrack. I thought the music was not only excellent, but very effective and well-placed within the film. How did you find your musicians? How did you collaborate with those musicians to design such a good score?

PM: I actually met a lot of these musicians doing a sketch show with some of our collaborators (Shaun Butler, associate producer and actor who played Anthony, and Rasheed Townes, crew member and actor who played Becca’s boyfriend). These are all musicians with whom we worked on our first film, and both Cedarwell (who provided the opening and restaurant scene songs) and Elijah Wyman played the premiere of “The Quarter-Life Crisis,” along with Mr. Sister whose work isn’t featured in Skin and Bone.

With this film, in particular, we were going for an atmosphere of authenticity, and a good portion of the music is comprised of instrumental versions of songs from “Butterfly Needles,” a stark and brave album that Elijah made, based off his experiences from being diagnosed with a critical rare kidney disorder all the way through receiving a transplant kidney, just a few years ago. The kidney was actually donated by Jason Rozen, our mutual friend who runs Grinding Tapes, and who made a chunk of the atmospheric music you hear during some of the pivotal procedure scenes. So even the music behind this film is based in true life experiences in healthcare, and really contributed to the tone we were trying to achieve in this movie. Elijah provided acoustic and vocalized versions of his music tailored to the mood and timing we wanted, and Jason worked to create the appropriate sound based off of my sort of broad explanations (e.g. “Can you make something about 30 seconds long that goes like this…? Okay, that’s good, now can you take drums from that other song and put them here? ”). These are all really just fantastic people for whom I have a great deal of respect. Each and every single one of them voices a unique perspective which is clearly explored in their music, and I definitely think these ideas behind the music really reinforced the themes.

LM: We found both Erik Neave of Cedarwell and Elijah Wyman through the "Bragging to Children" shows that Phil participated in every Tuesday night at a pub in Boston. When we heard their music we were blown away. Both are really incredible performers, and we were hoping to be able to highlight their music in any way we could. We thought, what better way than putting their music front and center in our films? When we had the screening of our first film "The Quarter-Life Crisis" we also had a concert with Elijah, and Cedarwell to start off the night. Both artists have completely different styles, but they go surprisingly well together in life and on screen. The other music we used was from our friend Jason Rozen who we met through Elijah. He started his own record label called Grinding Tapes Records because he was inspired by Elijah's music. It just so happens though, that he is also an incredible musician himself and quite the collector of instruments. Phil can tell the story of how he got him to make some music for "Skin and Bone", but I can say that each of these musicians really deserves some attention for the quality work they are creating. Also, it seemed highly appropriate for Elijah and Jason to be included in the project because they have a very intimate understanding of what it means to be a patient in the U.S. health care system. This set the tone of our film and helped us focus in the editing process on the important moments to highlight.

CC: What has been the most rewarding aspect of seeing Skin and Bone through production and now distribution?

PM: The thing that I’ve found most rewarding is the response, and knowing that, yes, we have made a film which has an audience. Obviously, it’s difficult getting anyone to see your film, period, and there is definitely a narrower spectrum of people who have seen this than we would like. But, when it comes down to it, the people who see it are for the most part enthusiastic about it, and I’m particularly pleased to hear that viewers got something out of it. You never know exactly how a project will be received until it’s out there, and when anyone says, yes, they found something with which they could identify- that’s about the best feeling you can get, when someone approaches you to tell you that your work gives a voice to something that maybe they’ve felt more viscerally. It’s a unifying feeling, and we absolutely hope that more people will be able to check it out.

LM: The most rewarding thing is getting feedback from people that they were able to relate to our story; that they were able to understand what we were trying to highlight with our film, but were still entertained. It is also super exciting when people we don't know buy the film! It is exciting to think of someone not connected to us seeing what we have worked hard to present.

CC: Skin and Bone is only your second feature, after The Quarter-Life Crisis. What lessons have you learned from making these two films? Any advice you would give to aspiring filmmakers?

PM: The Quarter-Life Crisis was really our way of asking ourselves, “Hey, we have no money, no experience, and no training. But we have some ideas we’d like to play around with, and we know some good actors. Can we make a movie?” The advent of digital media has definitely expanded the playing field, and people who could never have even thought of it before can now make movies for next to nothing, and that’s definitely a good thing. We are definitely always learning, as filmmakers. And having not gone to film school or anything, we definitely film from the gut.

I think if you want to make a film, just go out there and do it. Don’t break the bank, ask people for advice, look up on the internet how other filmmakers do things, try to see what you think works and what doesn’t, watch movies you like and figure out what works and what doesn’t. Don’t be afraid of bad reviews or bad feedback, don’t be afraid of cutting things you like that don’t work, and don’t be afraid of being critical and honest with yourself. And then when all is said and done, be proud of your work, dust yourself off, keep making more, and enjoy it. Lucy can confirm that I can’t sit in a room while other people watch my films – all I can think about is what I want to change. But the idea is to take that and use it on the next project.

I also just want to note that we’ve been able to work with some immensely talented people. They come down to meet us somewhere and have to trust that we are trying to do something interesting. And these people just nailed pretty much everything we could ask for. The cast, crew, and musicians are absolutely incredible, and we owe them a debt of gratitude. If you are going to make a movie, do your best to get a good community going.

LM: Lessons learned: 1) Always ask! Never be afraid to ask for permission to use something or do something. You would be surprised how nice and/or accommodating people can be when they think they are part of a film! 2) Pay attention to details! Lighting and sound are very, very important to the final product. I feel that no matter how much money is spent on a film the end product is very dependent on how good your editor is, and how attentive you are while filming to what that editor will have to work with. 3) Use blog sites and the internet. Honestly, due to our schedules we haven't been able to promote our work as much as I would like to, but I know right now there are many forums to do so online and I intend to use them in the future. 4) Be creative! If you are creative you can solve problems cheaply. It also helps if your crew is a bunch of engineers!

CC: What projects are in the works for you and your company, Milk and Cookie Productions?

PM: We’re smack dab in the middle of medical school, so it’s sort of a difficult time for us to springboard into anything huge at the moment. But we’re planning a short documentary to film this summer which we’re going to try out anyway. As always, I’ll continue developing scripts I’m writing. I’m working with one of our actors from Skin and Bone, to bring a few of her ideas to the page and, hopefully, to the screen as well. Once we are grounded back in the States, we will definitely be pulling some projects together, but I guess I have to write it first. So, in some form or another, we will definitely be around…

LM: We are currently working on a documentary of that focuses on the process of preparing for board examinations. Philip is also working on some scripts, and when we return to the states, we would love to continue "The Presidentials" with our collaborators!